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Talk:Early Splicers
but they do show the characteristic mental instability associated with ADAM abuse, Was Atlas's incarceration after he had made trouble by spreading rumors about ADAM shortages in Rapture? Ryan if he cared, he might have done some payback by having some announcements for the inmates in the 'prison' to "go see Mr Atlas, as he seems to know alot about Rapture's ADAM supply situation". Early Splicer Dialogue Like Booker's comment of how Arcadia may have housed cabins to fit with its vacationland-esque properties, could some of the Splicer dialogue also give insight into the daily lives, activities or whereabouts of Rapturians? There was a scene of sorts when Elizabeth leaves the Silverfin Restuarant, as well as various lines from the female variant, talking of some kind of pageant similar to Miss Universe or Miss America but instead of states or countries, they'd be split by districts ("I'm representing Olympus Heights"). Could there be other such dialogue, whether from these rogue splicers, splicers from the previous games or dialogue among those we see on High Street and Market Street? I know sometimes the groupings of NPCs have 2 or 3 dialogues everytime the player passes them. 06:31, September 12, 2014 (UTC) :The female variant is indeed describing some sort of "Miss Rapture" event, that's why we've given her the moniker "The Beauty Queen" in lieu of an actual name. So far nothing groundbreaking has been revealed, but there's still so little precisely recorded dialogue from those Splicers. :The citizens on High and Market street will say one or two lines of dialogue when Booker passes. It's mostly just gossip, philosophy, and current events. We're more likely to find something interesting from the Early Splicers than the citizens, as they're focused on the present while the Splicer's warped minds seem stuck on reliving their former glory. :Unownshipper (talk) 09:57, September 12, 2014 (UTC) name of the page I'm not really fond of the name of the page, as "early splicers" is misleading. That name would only describe any ADAM users at the time Plasmids/Gene Tonics were first created, yet I believe this page's purpose is to lists only those trapped in Fontaine's. It should be named "Splicers (Burial at Sea)" instead to avoid confusion. Also Frosty Splicers should not be on the same page as they're an unique type of enemies encountered in the DLC with its own fighting style (technically, they are another type of "Heavy Hitters"). Same goes for Ryan Security' Houdinis in BaS2, or the cut Jockey Splicers. Pauolo (talk) 00:29, February 23, 2015 (UTC) The page was originally called "Splicers (Burial at Sea)" and nobody liked it. If we're going to rename the page again we could at least come up with something better. Night at the Kashmir (talk) 17:50, February 23, 2015 (UTC) :I do remember that, though I think people didn't like the page because it was listing Thuggish and Leadhead Splicers among them, making it redundant to the general Splicer page. Still we shouldn't use the Splicer types of the first two games to refer to them, since the enemy system of BioShock Infinite is quite different. Pauolo (talk) 19:08, February 23, 2015 (UTC) :Another suggestion for a name: "Fontaine's Splicers," though Fontaine's could designate both the department store and their former boss. Pauolo (talk) 01:46, February 24, 2015 (UTC) :Yea I like that idea actually, But while we're on the topic of naming the page for these splicers I really want to bring up the idea of seperating the page. The amount of info in this page is a lot, especially considering the dialogue, and it would look a lot better if it was divided into two seperate pages for the male and female splicers. The Male splicer actually had Four body models! Two in Episode 1 and then two more are shown in Episode 2. :I know no one had found the names of the actually models but i think we could come up with one as a place holder. maybe "Fontaine's Gal" and "Fontaine's Guy" even? Night at the Kashmir (talk) 16:22, February 24, 2015 (UTC) ::I don't think those Splicer models have specific names because of the way Infinite generates basic characters and enemies, which are in fact interchangeable body and head models. The latter have first names to designate them in files, but not those of Burial at Sea (will check again though). Perhaps one should ask Ken Levine on his twitter if the devs gave names to those Splicers personae just like they did in the original game Still I see your point, listing all their lines on that single page is over-loading it. For now we could create another page "Burial at Sea Splicer Models" for quotes only, just like we have a page for each model of Splicers in previous games. Pauolo (talk) 17:35, February 24, 2015 (UTC) :If it helps: Robb Waters labeled the concepts for the Burial at Sea Splicers as "Prisoners". http://www.robbwatersart.com/bioshock-infinite/#/burial-at-sea/ :Shacob (talk) 16:36, February 24, 2015 (UTC) ::I remember that, though they don't really look like prisoners (more survivors) and they could be mistaken with the spliced inmates of Persephone. Pauolo (talk) 17:35, February 24, 2015 (UTC) :::Robb Waters labeling them "Prisoners" actually complicates things. I've been going back through Inner Persephone as I fill out the separate wings (Holding, Infirmary. etc.) and there are already non-hostile combat type Splicer labeled "Prisoners." They're the Toasty models in inmate attire and the Baby Jane models in the black dress outfit. They exhibit some interesting characteristics and I was hoping to make an article about them, but labeling the Splicers in BAS prisoners would surely make that more difficult. :::I am hesitant to have yet another page begin with the word "Fontaine" (God he was narcassistic). If I may ask, why exactly do you find "Early Splicer" misleading? All of the sequel games are in reference to the original BioShock. So, compared with the original Splicers, these enemeies are "early" in the (d)evolutionary state. :::I personally don't mind having the Frosty Splicers or Ryan Security listed on here either (at least just as brief introductions to their more fleshed out articles). The "Splicer" page lists the various combat types (Thuggish Splicer, Leadhead Splicer, Spider Splicer, Houdini Splicer, and Nitro Splicer) and what are the frosty splicer and Ryan Security other than combat types? Labeling this "Fontaine's Splicers" would be good, but it would restrict the Security agents from being mentioned. :::I agree that having individual pages where we can list the appearance and quotes of the common splicers would be perfect, but until we do I'm not convinced this page should be split or renamed. If we can find some identifying names in the code we'd have it made. All of the similar speaches must be grouped (the actor, the mother, the salesman), and the groups must surely have distinguishable names, right? :::Unownshipper (talk) 02:32, February 25, 2015 (UTC) ::::I agree, the developers abused of Fontaine's name. :D ::::Now, as I stated above I think naming them Early Splicers is misleading because, even if it is in reference to the enemies encountered in th original game, readers don't necessary know that at first. It's really more an arbitray name too, though I understand it's not easy finding them a name when they don't really have one to describe them in the first place. Perhaps someone who has a twitter account can ask Ken Levine if the developers gave them. I don't think they wrote their lines randomly without thinking of some (I'll see well Franklin's mother being the cut Mommy Dearest from Bio1 :D). Pauolo (talk) 07:31, February 25, 2015 (UTC) ::::Can we just agree to not call the page 'Fontaine's Splicers'. Fontaine's name definetly already appears way to much in the game already. I really don't understand why the female splcier only got one model while the male splicers have so many? They had two other designs drawn up which looked really good and would have worked well with the personas Beauty Queen and the Teacher. Night at the Kashmir (talk) 15:29, February 25, 2015 (UTC) :::::I hate to say it, lest it sound like I'm being cruel towards the hard work done by the talented individuals, but the DLC was rushed. Maybe not mechanically or aesthetically, but certainly rushed in the sense of narrative or logic. A BioShock game deserves far more detail or polish than what the Burial at Sea story was given. :::::Unownshipper (talk) 05:57, February 26, 2015 (UTC) :::::Well that's true, They tried too hard to connect to the main story of Bio1 that they pass on a lot of details. Minerva's Den doesn't have this issue because its story was self-centered. Pauolo (talk) 06:01, February 26, 2015 (UTC) A name found Just checking the subtitles, I noticed a specific Splicer has a name in BaS2. That one is encountered in the first open areas at Ryan the Lion Preparatory Academy, standing in front of the first locked door in the DLC. He talks about children being clay waiting to be molded, and ends up asking an unseen man named Henry to fetch him a bottle of black label Lacas. He speaks like the social Darwinist Splicers, but those lines I mentioned are only played when he is encountered. Anyway, the subtitle files name him "Dr. Radegast." Pauolo (talk) 21:32, March 3, 2015 (UTC) "black label Lacas" lately made from mushrooms? Radegast The Browns weakness... :That's why the name sounded familiar. o.o Pauolo (talk) 08:54, March 4, 2015 (UTC) :Interesting. So should we change the name of one of our Splicer personas or add him to the Scripted Events page? :Shacob (talk) 20:56, March 4, 2015 (UTC) "Where is your empathy?" quote a script? "Where is your empathy?' asks Peter the Parasite, while he picks your pocket. Do you know this word 'empathy?' You'll find it in the dictionary under 'L-I-E.' ''" This is one of the more memorable and intriguing quotes said by a Splicer in BaS, according to me (not that I agree with what she says, it is just something that left a mark, perhaps it's the way she says it). That being said, I've been trying to hear her say it while I play through the DLC, but the only time I've heard the quote, is in the Ryan the Lion Preparatory Academy, right after the doors to the cafeteria opens. Regarding this, I believe that this quote might be a Scripted Events. --Shacob (talk) 22:15, March 5, 2016 (UTC) :Definitely a scripted event. Even if (not that I could find it anywhere) it is said somewhere else, it is always said there at that specific point. To me that qualifies for a spot on this page. —'Mainframe98 talk·blog· ' 09:08, March 19, 2016 (UTC) Prisoners I think we're going to just have to split the page into Male Prisoner and Female Prisoner. There doesn't seem to be any other name for them and there's just too much information to keep everything on the one page. Night at the Kashmir (talk) 22:31, March 18, 2016 (UTC) :Sounds like a good plan. We can use this page as a general history page and embed that text on the individual pages. —'Mainframe98 talk·blog· ' 09:08, March 19, 2016 (UTC) ::Hold off on splitting this page just yet. I've unconvered some very useful information that might potentially solve our naming problem. Let me get back to y'all with this. ::Unownshipper (talk) 09:38, March 20, 2016 (UTC) :::Just a note: Robb Waters recently stated on Twitter that he didn't give the Splicers names in ''Burial at Sea and that he only named "Frosty" and the "Houdini agent": https://twitter.com/WatersRobb/status/838741530806530048 :::--Shacob (talk) 13:57, March 14, 2017 (UTC) The Hypochondriac The Splicer who has the persona based on Shirley Womack is currently named "The Hypochondriac", which I think is incorrect, as this woman clearly has obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) and those two are not the same. A Hypochondriac is, in short, a person who is scared of being severally ill and a person with OCD has... well a lot more symptoms... such as feeling the need to check things repeatedly, performing certain routines repeatedly, have certain thoughts repeatedly and has unwanted thoughts and/or feelings, etc. Her dialog clearly indicates signs of OCD. One might say that hypochondria is a side effect of OCD, which is (can be) true, but the hypochondria is also a side effect for other mental disorders, like bipolar disorder. I think the Splicer should be renamed, but I'm not quite sure to what, as a common theme for the BaS Splicers is to have "The" in front of the name (ex. The Beauty Queen & The Social Darwinist) and I'm not sure how to fit OCD in that format (nor am I sure if the name should have OCD in it). --Shacob (talk) 01:40, February 8, 2018 (UTC) :You've outlined the problem. I was the one who came up with these titles so that we could separate them into personalities instead of just Male Splicer/Female Splicer. Back then, when we were first separating out each line of dialogue, I didn't hear as many of the OCD quotes, but since more lines have been compiled and we can get a better read on her personality, the obsessive compulsive side has come through a little more blatantly than just the hypochondriac side. I have no problem with changing Early Splicer titles, but I have qualms about what this one's is changed to. :Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder is a clinically diagnosed medical disorder and I'd feel slightly uncomfortable labeling this character as The Obsessive-Compulsive (or any similar title dealing with that behavior). This is partially because we're determining that behavior based on our armchair diagnosis (as opposed to getting word of god confirmation, which admittedly we'll probably never receive), but more importantly I'm afraid it might come across as trivializing the condition. I feel like people play fast and loose with medical terms in everyday speech, like a person who gets distracted saying "Oh I'm so ADD sometimes." Additionally, labeling this character personality as "The OCD" (or whatever) sounds mean-spirited somehow even though it's obviously not meant to be. There's just no nice way to say it, unfortunately. :On the other hand, Hypochondria (much like Hysteria) long ago lost its clinical meaning (the proper diagnosis is "somatic symptom disorder" or "illness anxiety disorder"), and is used much more often as a person who is overly worried about their health as opposed to someone with a debilitating mental condition. It's entered the common vernacular awhile ago, so it's pretty inoffensive to use. :Again, I'm fine with a better name, but I just can't think of what that'd be. :Unownshipper (talk) 04:12, February 8, 2018 (UTC) ::Oddly enough I had been thinking about this very thing. How does the name "The Compulsive" sound? sm --Solarmech (talk) 12:55, February 8, 2018 (UTC) :::This is indeed a touchy subject and I by no means want to offend anyone, which is why I think "The OCD" is off the table. I believe Solarmech's suggestion could work, as it is more on the neutral side and doesn't specify any disorder. :::--Shacob (talk) 14:12, February 8, 2018 (UTC) ::::@Shacob I know 100% that's not your intention, and I appreciate it. Although while we're trying to be sensitive to others we also run the risk of neutering the name entirely. ::::@Solarmech I'm afraid "The Compulsive" sounds like the title of a mediocre modern horror movie. Contrariwise, "The Obsessive" doesn't work either as that's so vague it could apply to The Ex-Boyfriend character. I'd sooner opt for "The Basket Case" (à la Ally Sheedy in The Breakfast Club) even though it's even more generalized at least there's some "vigor" or "impact" to it. ::::Unownshipper (talk) 01:03, February 9, 2018 (UTC) :::::The Compulsive Basket Case? Naw, too long.... sm --Solarmech (talk) 12:58, February 9, 2018 (UTC) ::::::How about "The Neurotic"? It is a term no longer officially used in the DSM so it shouldn't really be a problem to anyone. It is also an umbrella term for obsessive-compulsive disorder, obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, impulse control disorder, anxiety disorder, hysteria, and a great variety of phobias, which fits the character well without putting an emphasis on any of them. ::::::--Shacob (talk) 16:07, February 16, 2020 (UTC)